Why the bone question is harder than the muscle question
A plausible mechanism, a measurable change, and no outcome data. This is what an open question looks like.
TheCompound Journal
Reporting on incretins, compounding & the peptide supply chain
Biological variation
Timing is the whole of the post-cessation panel: draw it too early and it measures the treatment period.
The argument against frequent monitoring is the same argument in reverse. Every panel drawn is an opportunity to generate a flagged result, and on a comprehensive panel the probability of at least one flag in a healthy person exceeds a half. Monthly panels in a person doing well will reliably produce abnormalities requiring explanation, most of which will resolve on repeat, and each of which consumes attention and generates anxiety. Measuring more often does not produce more information; past a certain frequency it produces less, because the signal-to-noise ratio of the individual result is unchanged while the number of false alarms scales with the number of measurements.
A baseline panel rarely finds anything. Its value is almost entirely in what it makes possible later: within-person comparison, which for nearly every analyte on a routine panel is a more sensitive instrument than comparison against a reference interval, because within-subject biological variation is smaller than between-subject variation.
The arithmetic behind that is worth stating. For an analyte where the within-subject coefficient of variation is substantially smaller than the between-subject value — a condition satisfied by creatinine, the liver enzymes, HbA1c, the thyroid hormones and most of the electrolytes — a person’s own previous result is a better comparator than the population interval. The index of individuality formalises this, and for the analytes in question it says clearly that population intervals are relatively insensitive to change in an individual.
The practical consequence is that a person with a baseline creatinine of 62 whose value is now 78 has information that a person presenting with 78 and no baseline does not, even though both results sit inside every reference interval in use. That is the whole argument for the baseline panel, and it is a stronger argument than the one usually offered, which is that the panel might find an undiagnosed problem.
Frequent monitoring in a person doing well is a reliable generator of work. Each comprehensive panel carries a substantial probability of at least one flagged result; the flags are mostly noise; each requires explanation, repetition or investigation; and the cumulative effect over a year of monthly panels is several investigations and no additional information about the person.
There is also a specific problem with monitoring an analyte more frequently than its own window. HbA1c integrates three months. Measuring it monthly produces overlapping windows in which two-thirds of the data is shared between consecutive results, so the apparent trend is smoother than the underlying glycaemia and the independent information per measurement is low. The trials in this class scheduled it quarterly for exactly this reason.
The counter-argument deserves stating fairly: monitoring during escalation, when tolerability problems and their metabolic consequences are most likely, is a different proposition from monitoring during stable maintenance, and the case for closer observation in the first three months is reasonable. What the Journal has not seen is any evidence that a fixed frequent schedule during maintenance detects anything that a symptom-prompted panel would miss. Readers who know of such evidence should write to standards@compoundjournal.com.
Half of an HbA1c comes from the preceding month. A panel drawn four weeks after stopping is measuring the treatment period.
On the lagTiming is almost the whole of this. A panel drawn four weeks after a final injection is largely measuring the treatment period, because HbA1c integrates three months and the drug was present for most of them. A panel drawn at twelve weeks reflects the post-cessation period for HbA1c and reflects it fully at sixteen. Fasting glucose responds within days to weeks and is therefore the earlier indicator, at the cost of much larger within-person variation.
The other analytes have their own timescales. Alanine aminotransferase responds over weeks to months as hepatic fat returns with weight. Triglycerides respond quickly and noisily. Creatinine drifts back as lean mass is regained, which means estimated glomerular filtration rate falls during regain for the same non-renal reason it rose during loss. Blood pressure, which is not a laboratory measurement but travels with these panels, reverts over weeks.
The commonest misreading the Journal encounters in correspondence is a person concluding from a reassuring panel at four to six weeks after stopping that the metabolic consequences of cessation are smaller than they were told to expect. At that interval the panel cannot have shown them. The finding at twelve weeks is frequently different, and it is the one worth waiting for.
| Analyte | Analytical CV | Within-subject CV | Reference change value |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sodium | 0.8% | 0.7% | ≈3% |
| HbA1c | 2.0% | 1.7% | ≈7% relative |
| Creatinine | 2.5% | 4.5% | ≈14% |
| Alanine aminotransferase | 5% | 20% | ≈57% |
| Triglycerides | 3% | 12% | ≈34% |
| Thyroid-stimulating hormone | 6% | 17% | ≈50% |
| Ferritin | 4% | 13% | ≈38% |
| Coefficients are representative values from published biological variation databases and differ between laboratories and platforms. The RCV column is calculated as 2.77 times the root sum of squares and is rounded. | |||
A distinction has to be drawn firmly because the postbag suggests it frequently is not. The four independent testing services this market relies on — Janoshik, Medutest, PeptideMeter and VendorInvestigate — analyse material. They report chromatographic purity, identity by mass, peptide content where it is measured, and in the case of the verification services what could be established about a supplier. A clinical laboratory analyses a person. The two produce documents that superficially resemble each other and answer entirely unrelated questions.
A purity certificate reporting 99.1 per cent for a batch from WWB, CPC or QYB tells you nothing about anybody liver enzymes. A normal panel does not confirm that a vial contained what its label claimed, and an abnormal one does not establish that it did not. Where a person suspects a supply problem, the instrument for that is analytical testing of the material; where a person has an abnormal laboratory result, the instrument is clinical assessment. Substituting one for the other is a reliable way to spend money and learn nothing.
Compounds sold for research use only are not approved for human use in any jurisdiction, and nothing in this department should be read as guidance about using them or about monitoring their use.
Five things accompany a laboratory number in these pages. The units, because international and conventional units differ for several analytes and the same value means different things in each. The reference interval used, with a note where the interval is contested, as it is for alanine aminotransferase. The baseline, because a change of 1.8 percentage points in HbA1c from a starting value of 8.3 is a different claim from the same change from 9.5. The estimand where the figure comes from a trial. And the reference change value where we are discussing an individual delta rather than a group mean.
We also state the assay method where it matters, which is more often than one would like: HbA1c in the presence of a haemoglobin variant, thyroid function in the presence of interfering antibodies, and creatinine measured by enzymatic against Jaffe methods all behave differently, and a comparison across methods is not a comparison.
This is a heavier apparatus than most publications carry and it exists because the alternative, in our experience, is a stream of technically accurate figures that lead readers to conclusions the data does not support. Errors in this apparatus should be reported to standards@compoundjournal.com; the correction log records what came of each one.
What is genuinely missing is a cohort. Nobody has characterised micronutrient status, cystatin C-based renal function, or the trajectory of the standard panel in a population of people taking these drugs for two years or more. Every monitoring schedule in circulation is precautionary extrapolation from either the trial protocols or the bariatric literature, and it should be described that way rather than presented as validated practice.
Selected from correspondence received on this article. Writers are identified by initial, surname and city, verified before printing. Replies are from the desk that filed the piece or from the standards editor. Write to letters@compoundjournal.com.
My eGFR has risen from 71 to 84 over fourteen months of treatment and I have lost twenty-six kilograms. My prescriber described this as the drug protecting my kidneys. Having read your creatinine section, I suspect it is mostly that I have less muscle. Which of us is right?
— B. Sundqvist, Turku
On the information given, probably you, at least in part. A rise of that size during weight loss of that magnitude is well within what reduced creatinine production can produce. A cystatin C-based estimate alongside the creatinine one would separate the two, and is the measurement worth asking for. It is also possible both things are happening.
I stopped treatment fifteen weeks ago and my panel is worse than I expected. I had a panel at five weeks that looked fine and I had assumed I had escaped. Your point about the twelve-week timing was the explanation nobody offered me.
— H. Fitzmaurice, Preston
As a biomedical scientist I would add one point to your reference-interval section: many laboratories do not derive their own intervals at all. They adopt the manufacturer interval for the platform, which was established in a population that may have nothing to do with the one being tested. The interval on the report can be a document about a different country.
— E. Marchbank, Perth, WA
This is correct, common, and something we should have stated. We have added it, and it strengthens rather than weakens the argument for within-person comparison.
You give the reference change value for ALT as about sixty per cent, which strikes me as so large as to make routine monitoring of it pointless. Is that your position?
— J. Prendergast, Wollongong, NSW
Not quite. It makes monitoring for small movements pointless, which is different. A doubling is well outside the RCV and is a real signal; a rise from 28 to 41 is not. The value of the test lies in detecting the former, and much of the anxiety it generates comes from acting on the latter.
A plausible mechanism, a measurable change, and no outcome data. This is what an open question looks like.
Almost nothing in the standard management repertoire has been tested in a randomised trial in this specific population. We say what is extrapolated and from where.
This is the single interaction with ordinary medical care that patients most need to disclose, and it is the one most often not asked about.
Which movements are expected, which resolve, and which warrant investigation.
A rotation scheme that is too complicated will not be followed. We describe the simple ones that are.
Weight loss reduces bone mineral density at load-bearing sites. Whether that translates into fractures in this population is unmeasured.